Bernsie will be on this tomorrow I bet.

But fighting is getting stupider and stupider. And this didn't have to happen. Did you see him as he left the ice? He does however have a great stache.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

How is fighting getting stupider?

Because we know more and more about repeated head trauma and it's long term effects.
Given the knowledge available, one could say that the league, in not banning fighting (at least a stiffer penalty than a 5 minute major) is liable. Knowledge equals liability.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Don't you kind of need fighting to control some of what goes on in the game? I know we, yes I said we, aren't built that way, but there seems there is value in it.

I don't know about in the past...it seemed worse than it is now.

Why do you need fighting in exactly one sport to control it? Wouldn't 10 game suspensions for fighting control what goes on in a game?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I think it helps to monitor the game at times. Less cheap shots, not beating up on some players. I don't like when it's used as a momentum/wake the team up type thing.

Occasionally I like seeing when a player has had enough, but yeah I don't like when it leads to serious injury. Could be said for the whole sport though in some ways.

So you're saying the refs and the NHL cannot control the game?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Yes.

Why are NHL officials uniquely unable to police the game when referees in every other sport have no problem?
It's the way penalties are assessed, and suspensions and fines are assessed, ergo, the NHL can end it if they want to.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Hockey fights don't cause long term brain damage, the trauma caused by the brain slamming against the skull does. Ban skulls or ban brains but don't ban hockey fights.

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It's obvious. NHL doesn't want to do it because fighting appeals to the lowest common denominator hockey fan.
Fights = money.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

No other sport allows the physical contact that hockey does with the continuance of play, not even football, imo. You'd almost have to eliminate checking if you wanted to take out fighting. I guess they have taken some steps with checking though.

Doubt it. There don't seem to be a lot of lowest common denominator fans. I don't feel like fights are that common to attract a fan.

Maybe if fighting was only done to prevent additional injury, but it's not. It's done to fire up a dead team. It's done to get the crowd going. It's done AFTER someone gets hurt... I don't think the threat of fighting prevents any goonery to top tier players.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I couldn't disagree with you more on this one.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

You want to stop the fighting I think you need to come down harder on the truly blood thirsty.

I'd buy that. Straight goonery is bad for hockey.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Then I'd be okay with it. If you don't take that out then I think you have to keep the fighting.

Right. I'm just saying that policing the game should be up to the refs and the league, not players.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

The agenda of the players is pure....its purer than that of the league and the refs.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

Right and I'm saying they aren't going to do it so you have to leave it to the players.

I guess we just need a brain injury lawsuit that the NHL is too stupid to defend like the NFL did to change things.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's grey area. Is the brain injury from checking? already illegal checking? fighting? Falling? Running in to a goal post? What do you take out and how much?

Fighting should be rare and relevant. Get rid of the staged fights to "fire up the troops." The only use I have for a fight is when it's to truly beat the living shit out of a guy who took liberties with another player, like when John Scott murdered Engelland for a concussive hit on Kruger. I have no tolerance for anything less.

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I'm picking up what you are throwing down.

Anyway, this was just a freak accident, though it sounds like a very bad accident indeed. Hypothetically speaking, Parros could have been grabbed by the sweater and thrown to the ice face-first in any number of game situations. There are reasons to crack down on fighting, but I'm not certain this is one.

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I'll carry over Dan's nonchalance with football players' health to hockey as well .... I don't mind the fighting in the least and don't have some hardon to (a) get rid of it, and/or (b) keep players "safe". They're not worried about it, so why the hell should I concern myself with it?

Banning fighting doesn't "educate" anyone to a point farther than they already understand the risks involved, so it's a faux sentiment of concern not just of well-being but also of 'awareness'. Those other two fellas in their fight took a few seconds in the wind-up to decide if they were going to fight without their shields ... look, most of these fights aren't rabid assholery (e.g., gooning it up out of blinding rage), and there's seemingly no end to the unwritten "gentlemanly" rules on the ice which the vast majority of players seem to have constantly front-of-mind, so I don't see any wisdom in using a freak accident - regardless of context - as some rallying point for misplaced fakey concern.

I absolutely do not want anyone (maybe Bertuzzi) to break their heads and be injured for life ... but I won't pretend it is something important to concern myself with.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

This discussion prompted me to watch "The Goon" last night.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

Every other level of Hockey does not allow fighting. Including the Olympics. Somehow the Olympics do not spiral out of control every four years.

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Steve Yzerman, Ray Shero, Jim Rutherford, and Scotty Bowman all said it's time to get rid of fighting. That's a pretty powerful contingent in the league (even though Rutherford's teams always suck).

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