Marty having his ex and daughters come see him in the hospital and Rust feeling his daughter's presence as he was close to slipping away was the point. Brought them both to tears.

Then Marty's final line about darkness owning most of the territory. Rust's tells him there was one time when it was all darkness. So good is making a charge over evil.

I certainly wouldn't have devoted 8 fuckin' hours to what turned out to be a CSI episode if I had known that's what it was. The show was well done, but in spite of all its pretensions to the contrary, it was really just a police procedural/buddy cop show. It's fine if that didn't bother you. I was looking for something more and didn't get it.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

See that's just silly. There's a reason that CSI and Law and Order have never got 1/100th of the attention that this series got. I understand you didn't like the way the show evolved and ended, but it definitely wasn't a bland whodunit police procedural. The writing and the directing was far superior to those vanilla shows. There were real themes and characters that were explored in this series, and it kept us all interested to the very end. I don't see any 20+ page threads on CSI around here.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Wrong on all counts. To say it turned into a buddy cop/CSI thing means that you weren't paying much attention or had another show on.

I didn't say it was a bland police procedural. It was a police procedural with high quality acting, literary pretensions, and tits.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

Well, since me and the next most intelligent guy on this board agree, I'm gonna go with that.

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

I think the lead is being buried here...

It's unconscionable that we have the obscene wealth to afford the luxury of HBO.

It wasn't a police procedural. We apparently did watch different shows.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Wrong on all counts.

It certainly wasn't. I think JORR was watching Battleship Potemkin or something.

No, not really. The writing was fairly pretentious, the evolution was missing and there was a lot of "bland" that was never fairly acknowledged because so many were devoted to finding hidden clues and goofy references to 110 yr old queer & uninteresting writings of the deluded.

And I really, really hoped for so much more from this series.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Or maybe you're a bit envious at what can actually be achieved by a guy with an English degree and have to try to tear it down a few notches.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No, not really. It's just false to suggest that Hart and Cohle were the same guys in 1995, 2002, and 2012. There was evolution of characters. I thought the show was really well written, as did many people who know a great deal more about it than I do and I suspect you do. It's easy to call any type of quality writing pretentious. And you're the first person I've heard call the show bland. To each their own though.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Ending was fine IMO, though I'm sure there will be much complaining about it. Those who were obsessed with analyzing clues will whine that there was no shocking twist or at least something they could have gotten credit for predicting from their countless hours studying video stills and those who though Rust was some kind of atheist superhero will be mad about the final exchange. I thought however the finale presented a logical ending point to both the story of the case and the story of their relationship. The setting for the chase scene was amazing and that sequence deserves to stand alongside the long shot from episode 4.

On the case, I'm not entirely sure what people were expecting aside from the finale somehow resolving every single red herring (intentional or not) identified by the viewers throughout the show. I know it's disappointing they merely caught Childress without being able to go any further, but it's a disappointment the viewer shares with Rust. That kind of corruption was one of the overarching themes of the series and is also one of many noir conventions Pizzalotto was clearly playing with.

Overall I really enjoyed this season and I'm hoping the anthology format catches on for more shows. It allows big name actors to appear on TV since they don't have to commit for more than one season and it has the potential for better storytelling since a story is contained to a set number of episodes. That's not to say this was a perfect season; certain parts of the show could have benefited from a longer season or more time, especially from 4 onwards.

Well said Zephr.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

FF, in your opinion, what exactly in Rust & Marty's characters evolved over time? They each remained the same flawed (albeit interesting) people throughout.

Too much time was spent with beer can origami, or bs cop politics or shallow allusions to voodoo & the south LA history to allow for any real growth/exploration into either. Worse yet, the dominating Reggie Ledoux episodes left me completely flat...and were completely contrived.

Imo.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

But in this paragraph you just noted the biggest letdown of the series. The writer was clearly playing with too many themes and didn't go deep enough with any of them. He over-reached and left me feeling empty.

I'll likely never watch any episode of this show again, unless one of Marty's side pieces is again on display.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Gotta log off and crash here soon, I'll give you a more thorough answer tomorrow. But quickly I will just say that's Rust went from an atheist who talked about the sins of being a father to a guy who wanted to die so he could feel the warmth and love of his daughter in the afterlife. That seems like a pretty big evolution of character.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I agree with the having to log off part, but that seemed like nothing more than a death bed conversion at best, Alaska looking at the stars fantasy at worst.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

It's an intentional letdown. It's like complaining about The Wire because McNulty and Lester failed to end the drug war in Baltimore once and for all (sorry for the spoiler!).

Re: character evolution, I don't see how one could view Hart's hospital breakdown and Rust's closing monologue and think the characters have failed to evolve from the first episode of the series. I think one could possibly complain that Hart perhaps changed too much off-screen between 2002 and 2012, but I think it's inaccurate to suggest no change occurred at all.

Is it fair to have expected more than to have it all turn into the chase for Groundskeeper Willie though?

As for Marty's "changes", they were only because of the consequences of his own immoral actions, not from any self examination nor anything particularly interesting imo. His breakdown simply appeared to me as little more than a realization that his life had been completely self-centered and empty, but he (blindly) happily believes that he has a chance at redemption. Nothing new there.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I thought for sure when Marty dragged Rust out of that wheelchair they were going to trod off in the cane fields together and light the motherfucker on fire.

After watching the finale I wasn't as bugged as I thought I'd be that Audrey's sex drawings, etc. weren't delved into deeper, but looking back all her issues and how they related to the Lange case were probably just projection on my part.

Also, LOL at how quickly the FBI gets in there to set the record straight and confirm that this was all the work of a single mad-man and has absolutely [url]NO[/url] connection to the Tuttle family.

_________________

For 6 years CSI had over 20 million viewers per episode, topping out one year at 26 million as the #1 watched show on TV. True Detective averages between 10 and 11 million viewers. So FavreFan, get off your tv-pretentiousness high horse and answer this question, who you crappin?

_________________

I also agree with you two and am pretty fucking smart.


Liked the show, but in the end it was pretty ridiculous. They took what looked like a huge conspiracy that went all the way up to the main Tuttle guy and turned it into a buddy cop drama that ends with them catching a lone serial killer and just accepting that, hey, you never get all the bad guys.

Talk about the ultimate cop out endings. I can see why the writer was in bail out diffuse mode. He knew he didn't write nearly as interesting a story as the fans imagined.

_________________

I think by attention he means the near universal critical acclaim type attention. No one's denying that CSI and Law & Order were popular shows.

_________________

What's all this talk about the show suddenly turning into a buddy cop story? It was a buddy cop story from the beginning, but with heaps of Lovecraft added in. Plus it was told better and shot better than 99.99% of all the other buddy cop dramas out there.

_________________

Yea, CSI didn't get a lot of critical acclaim type attention......


Awards[edit]
ASCAP Award
2006: Top TV Series
2009: Top Television Series
2013: Top Television Series
ASC Award
2005: Outstanding Achievement in Cinematography in Regular Series
2006: Outstanding Achievement in Cinematography in Regular Series
2009: Outstanding Achievement in Cinematography in Regular Series
BMI Film & TV Award
2001: BMI TV Music Award
2002: BMI TV Music Award
2003: BMI TV Music Award
2004: BMI TV Music Award
2005: BMI TV Music Award
2008: BMI TV Music Award
2009: BMI TV Music Award
2013: BMI TV Music Award
Cinema Audio Society Awards
2008: Outstanding Achievement in Sound Mixing for Television Series (for "Living Doll")
Emmys
2002: Outstanding Makeup for a Series (Non-Prosthetic)
2003: Outstanding Sound Editing for a Series
2006: Outstanding Cinematography for a Single-Camera Series
2007: Outstanding Sound Mixing for a Comedy or Drama Series
2010: Outstanding Cinematography for a One Hour Series[71]
2010: Outstanding Special Visual Effects for a Series[72]
Environmental Media Award
2011: Television Episodic Drama
Genesis Award
2006: Dramatic Series
Golden Reel Award
2002: Best Sound Editing in Television – Effects & Foley, Episodic
2004: Best Sound Editing in Television Episodic – Sound Effects & Foley
Logie Award
2004: Most Popular Overseas Drama
Monte-Carlo Television Festival
2006: International TV Audience Award, Best Drama TV Series
2007: International TV Audience Award, Best Drama TV Series
2008: International TV Audience Award, Best Drama TV Series
2010: International TV Audience Award, Best Drama TV Series
2011: International TV Audience Award, Best Drama TV Series
2012: International TV Audience Award, Best Drama TV Series
NAACP Image Award
2003: Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series
2006: Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series: Gary Dourdan
People's Choice Awards
2003: Favorite Television Dramatic Series
2004: Favorite Television Dramatic Series
2005: Favorite Television Drama
2006: Favorite Television Drama
Producers Guild of America Award
2001: Vision Award (Television)
Satellite Award
2003: Best Television Series, Drama
Saturn Award
2004: Best Network Television Series
2005: Best Network Television Series
Screen Actors Guild Award
2005: Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Drama Series
TP de Oro
2003: Best Foreign Series (Mejor Serie Extranjera)
2004: Best Foreign Series (Mejor Serie Extranjera)
TV Guide Award
2001: New Series of the Year
TV Quick Award
2006: Best International TV Show
Visual Effects Society Award
2010: Outstanding Supporting Visual Effects in a Broadcast Program
2010: Outstanding Compositing in a Broadcast Program or Commercial
Nominations[edit]
Emmy Award
2001: Outstanding Art Direction for a Single Camera Series
2001: Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series: Marg Helgenberger
2001: Outstanding Single Camera Picture Editing for a Series
2001: Outstanding Sound Editing for a Series
2002: Outstanding Cinematography for a Single Camera Series
2002: Outstanding Drama Series
2002: Outstanding Makeup for a Series (Prosthetic)
2002: Outstanding Single Camera Sound Mixing for a Series
2002: Outstanding Sound Editing for a Series
2003: Outstanding Drama Series
2003: Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series: Marg Helgenberger
2003: Outstanding Makeup for a Series (Non-Prosthetic)
2003: Outstanding Makeup for a Series (Prosthetic)
2003: Outstanding Single-Camera Sound Mixing For A Series
2004: Outstanding Cinematography for a Single-Camera Series
2004: Outstanding Drama Series
2004: Outstanding Makeup for a Series (Non-Prosthetic)
2004: Outstanding Single-Camera Sound Mixing for a Series
2005: Outstanding Directing for a Drama Series: Quentin Tarantino
2005: Outstanding Makeup for a Series (Non-Prosthetic)
2005: Outstanding Single-Camera Sound Mixing for a Series
2005: Outstanding Sound Editing for a Series
2006: Outstanding Single-Camera Sound Mixing for a Series
2006: Outstanding Sound Editing for a Series
2007: Outstanding Cinematography for a Single-Camera Series
2007: Outstanding Makeup for a Series (Non-Prosthetic)
2007: Outstanding Music Composition for a Series (Original Dramatic Score)
2007: Outstanding Prosthetic Makeup for a Series, Miniseries, Movie or a Special
2008: Outstanding Makeup for a Single-Camera Series (Non-Prosthetic)
2008: Outstanding Sound Editing for a Series
2009: Outstanding Cinematography for a One Hour Series
2009: Outstanding Prosthetic Makeup for a Series, Miniseries, Movie or a Special
2009: Outstanding Sound Editing for a Series
Golden Globes
2001: Best TV-Series – Drama
2002: Best Performance by an Actress in a Television Series – Drama: Marg Helgenberger
2002: Best Television Series – Drama
2003: Best Performance by an Actress in a Television Series – Drama: Marg Helgenberger
2004: Best Performance by an Actor in a Television Series – Drama: William Petersen
2004: Best Television Series – Drama
People's Choice
2012: Favorite TV Crime Drama
2013: Favorite TV Crime Drama
Producers Guild of America
2002: Outstanding Producer of Episodic Television, Drama
2003: Outstanding Producer of Episodic Television, Drama
2004: Outstanding Producer of Episodic Television, Drama
2005: Outstanding Producer of Episodic Television, Drama
The series has also been nominated for multiple Screen Actors Guild Award, Writers Guild of America Award, and Directors Guild of America Award.

_________________

Are you Jerry Bruckheimer or something?

_________________

yes.



I just get annoyed when people disregard history. CSI was the biggest show on tv at one point, had much more attention than True Detective. Got to the point where it was so huge they did several spin offs.

When its all said and done history will remember True Detective as a tiny blip of a show that started out too big for its britches and couldn't cash the checks it was writing when it was all said and done.

_________________

Actually, I'm pretty sure True Detective will be remembered as damn good, well written, well acted television. Some people were looking for it to show them the meaning the life or something.....well, it's no wonder they were let down.