da fuck are you talking about? that was the past 3-4 years!

rebuilt with young guys in Sale/Quintana/Abreu/Rodon/Eaton

and then tried filling in with free agents/trades - Melky, Robertson, LaRoche, Shark, Frazier, Lawrie

Just a reminder that anyone with the word fan in their username likely has AIDS.

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First, I don't want to come off as an apologist for Reinsdorf as I have a lot of issues with the way he runs a franchise. But the Sox clearly don't have the same resources as the Cubs. No big market team ever broke it down like the Cubs did.

The Sox aren't doing that now either. They may have some bad seasons suffering through young guys, but that's normal rebuilding. The Yankees and Red Sox have gone through that without losing on purpose.

I realize it's a fine distinction and ultimately a shitty team is a shitty team. But if somehow the Sox are close to the lead in July (Remember, they still have one of the best pitchers in baseball in Quintana ), I think they'll try to win rather than just flipping that pitcher in the interest of following The Plan.

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Don't take it personally.

they're rebuilding their farm system with other people's draft picks. This is different. I think they'll trade the minimum they need to flush new talent in the system, suck for a year, evaluate their system and start plugging holes they still have in the minors with a free agent or two.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Quantify it though. That is incredibly vague. Does it mean spending in free agency?

Of course Rick Hahn will be preaching patience.

To me, attempting to be competitive is putting your best roster out there rather than having them sit in the minors, and not having an abnormally low payroll. I think the minors will not have MLB ready talent by the middle of 2018, and by 2019 the payroll will be at the level you would expect for a team like the White Sox if not by 2018 if the talent in the minors looks good and can be added to with guys on a 3 or 4 year deal.

So, the answer is they start to try and be competitive by 2018, with them really doing it by 2019 based on how well the minor league players work out.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So I guess you just want to whine and complain. Good luck!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

2005

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and who the hell picked Rizzo, Russell, Hendricks???

You asked when will they attempt to be competitive. They are attempting to be competitive in 2018. In their minds (and that is what an attempt is) they are going to be set in 2018 up the middle with Collins, Anderson and Moncada and Tilson. In their minds they will have a rotation of Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech and Fulmer. The bullpen will be staffed by Burdi at the back end. None of these are stretches for 2018 according to scout ETA.

The indefinites at this moment are Quintana, Abreu, Robertson and Frazier and the 2017 draft. My scenario leaves open the corners of the IF and OF. I think they believe they will acquire players through trades and draft to fill those positions. The positions not filled for 2018 can be filled with FA because of the low salaries of the rest of the team.

Now, these are all rookies and young players, so they will not be championship caliber but I do think the sox believe they will be competitive.

Have at it

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I disagree. It doesnt really get much less vague than "trying to fill out as many holes in your roster as possible". That is done via trades and free agency. Let's not overcomplicate this. It simply means putting the best team on the field as possible. That doesn't happen without trading your best prospects or else be willing to, neither of which the Sox will do next winter.


I answered this part with my last sentence in the above quote, but it sounds like you have a pie in the sky scenario where the Sox get competitive by 2018 without giving up any top prospects, and you also seem unwilling to acknowledge how many FA signings it would take if they were to refuse to part with those prospects.


Please see the above explanation and form a coherent rebuttal instead of trying to distract.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

http://www.espn.com/blog/the-gms-office ... t?id=13522

Jim Bowden says three years now. Since most of the top guys are "almost" major league ready I would guess that they are aiming for the 2019 season to be competitive. Next season they are going for the number one draft pick.

Rodon, Fulmer, Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, Hansen. Should be able to make a pretty good rotation out of that group if the scouts are right. They need a good defensive catcher. Saw that no one had more strikes called balls than Rodon last season.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Fair enough.

Tilson is trash. If he is part of any type of core that is a major problem, but I dont think he is.

The entire starting 5 you named are all wild card lotto tickets ( Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech and Fulmer. ). As is Collins, and to a lesser degree Moncada, although he better be damn good.

So you are trying to tell me they are attempting to be competitive 17 months from now without one proven top of the line starter, zero other starters who have shown any MLB success, almost no outfield, and half the infield(outside of Anderson and Moncada) are up in the air. Who knows if Collins can turn out as a Catcher also, but I doubt it given what I've read.

On top of this, the GM responsible for this entire plan says it will be 2020 or later.

I wish you a lot more than luck on your dreams here, my friend.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

that's not the different part! The different part is the Cubs wouldn't spend on any major free agents other than a pitcher I shall not name. The Sox are going to spend in free agency in 2018. that's my opinion. Year 2.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Spencer Adams will be part of the future rotation. Lopez and Hansen (if he makes it at all) will be in the bullpen.

Depends on the rest of the division as well.

How long is Cleveland's window? Do the Tigers and Royals do their own tear downs in the next year or two as well? How far away is Minnesota?

Sox nation seems to think most of those prospects are going to hit. Seems realistic .

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Please go easy on those generalizations my friend.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

spencer adams guy throws 88

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I think there's a pretty good chance Lopez starts this season in the rotation.

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Don't take it personally.

Babe Moncada

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Ive always wanted to go to a AAA game and never had the chance. You got my ticket this year?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm not sure windows matter. Let's remember that the Sox still have the same guys in charge who haven't put together a playoff team since 2008.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

African or European?

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You asked when they will attempt to be competitive. I am giving you a scenario where they are attempting. You don't agree with it but it IS an attempt to be COMPETITIVE (and remember what that standard is).

You get the benefit of being able to both eliminate Quintana from the discussion AND any return he might bring. This heavily skews things. What if they choose to keep him. Now you have a front line starter, another who has shown a lot (including an AL pitcher of the month last year), the top pitching prospect in MLB, a guy who just dominated the minor league showcase league and a host of other very good options. If they choose not to keep him, I fully expect that they will be getting an MLB ready prospect + in return.

Think about how the Joe Sheehan types were hailing the Cubs as the team of the 2010s, with fewer quality players who were at lower minor league levels.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I find it disheartening that the Sox fanbase, who I have always respected, is content with just being competitive.

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I don't expect any of the pitchers to hit very well

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Stockholm syndrome.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

He asked about competitive.

If he asked championship caliber, I would have said 2019. I would not say they are going to win a championship because of inherent variation in MLB playoffs, just that they will be of a level to win.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

They will try and fill as many holes as possible by 2019, with a good portion of that coming from expected minor league talent in 2018 and then some free agents and more talent from the minors during 2019.

I predict these things:
1) 3 of the players they traded for will be on the team as permanent members by the all star break in 2018.
2) 5 of the players they traded for or will be trading for(Quintana and/or Abreu) will be on the team as permanent members during the 2019 season.
3) They will be selectively active in free agency in 2018 signing guys who should be good for the next 3 or 4 years.
4) They will be more active in 2019 assuming the team shows potential in 2018.

Now give your timeline and we can compare.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You gave me a scenario, but that scenario had zero realistic chance of being competitive unless we want to turn into Cub fans and say all our prospects will hit.

Keep Q or trade him for other high level prospects. Either way it makes no nevermind to me. You either get a .500 pitcher with good peripheral stats to front your rotation, or a wildly inconsistent lottery ticket in Rodon.

I'm not particularly concerned with the Cubs as far as this discussion goes.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul