First, the seven year contracts followed by the regression of Rizzo and Castro and now the firing of Theo's handpicked manager. Is this the beginning of the end for TheoandJed?

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

They may be more successful with a meth lab over trying to build a team on a very tight budget through a farm system philosophy that went limb when MLB changed the rules.

_________________

You hope

Sad.

_________________
Team Cutler.

The improvements to the farm system are the beginning of the beginning.

Can TheoandJed last long enough to see them come to fruition?

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Took a year and half for Ricketts to fire Hendry. Epstoyer have another 5 years minimum.

I feel really comfortable saying they don't have that long if they keep posting losing records at the big league level.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

oh, that part is over

They aren't firing them before the contracts are done, that's for sure.

And if Tom REALLY disagreed with the major league club losing games... he wouldn't have hired Theo. That was Theo's plan the entire time.


And further, if that was an issue this season, the Cubs wouldn't have sold at the deadline. Ricketts would have stopped him.

So the Cubs are trying to win starting now?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's it. I've seen enough. No more of this playing-not-to-win shit. It doesn't work here and it might not even work anymore with the new rules. Just sign major leaguers who can make this team semi-respectable again. Whatever they're trying, it's not working. I don't have the patience to wait another five years for it to maybe get better. JUST MAKE IT STOP, PLEASE.

_________________

If they knew they were going to lose, why fire Sveum with a year left on his deal? Plans don't always work out. I agree that Theo will finish his contract.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Theo answered that yesterday. He made a mistake in hiring Dale and he isn't the guy to continue the development of Castro/Rizzo as well as the incoming influx of young talent.


I don't get why this thread keeps happening.

_________________
Team Cutler.

That seems to be a reasonable stance for any Cub fan, but you'd be yelled at and called a moron for it if you called B&b to discuss it. And you just might get a follow up from Maddux Boy slowly explaining to dan exactly why you are an idiot.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

The scary thing is that I really don't think Tom Ricketts can afford to run a baseball team in Chicago. He can't do a large-market payroll, and he can't keep trotting out shitty teams because the revenue is dropping. We're fucked.

_________________

Actually, it happened today because I was goofing on all the threads about a show I've never watched. But now that we're into it, it deserves to keep happening when you've got a guy out there and all he has to do to keep getting a free pass is explain that he made a mistake. How do you know everything he's done isn't a mistake? And if it were, would you simply say, "he admitted it, let's move on"?

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

You're creating something that doesn't exist. Cubs fans can like the process without believing it will 100% work beyond a shadow of a doubt. I like what they have done with the farm system. It is completely revamped... one of the worst to one of the best. I love that. I think it was the right thing to do. That doesn't mean I think they are now definitely going to win a WS.

I cant speak to their motivations but I expect a competitive team next season.

You're a big Cub fan. Are you really saying that's an unreasonable viewpoint?

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Why is it "one of the best"? Because Theo and some writers who love him say it is?

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Avoids discussing the disaster at 35th and Shields.

My thoughts on the subject fall somewhere between CH and Northside Dan in this thread. I'm starting to get a little antsy from the losing although I know I should give it time.

My big concern is what happens if the young guys come up and all suck shit? I dont think Ricketts is going to cover up those mistakes with a big spending spree. I think if this plan doesnt work out, Theo turned the Cubs into the Royals....

_________________

No, that's actually a pretty informed view.

You cant rebuild forever.

He's right to site the rule changes and he's right to expect a better team.


Not Whistler like at all

The Brewers at one point had the best farm system in baseball, far and away the best. From 2004 to 2006 all people talked about was how it was just a matter of time before the Brewers and their glorious farm system would make it back to the top. They shit the bed in the second half of '07 and kicked the division to an 85-win Cubs team that got swept. They won the wild card in '08 (with manager Dale Sveum!) and lost the LDS. They sucked in '09 and '10, got close in '11, sucked last year, and sucked this year. And so concludes the story of The Great Brewers Farm System.

EDIT: the #5 comparable player to Brewers bust Matt LaPorta is...Anthony Rizzo. Oh lord.

_________________

I'm not sure you can do that anymore even if you wanted to. And I don't think every guy they have is going to suck either, but there's a vast ocean between not sucking and being a perennial World Series contender.

_________________
General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

Huh? It was a very productive season. The future looks bright!

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Indeed. Super Bowl in June!


I don't know if you can say right now this is the beginning of the end of TheoJed. Maybe you 3-5 years from now you could look back and accurately say that. I think its a bit shortsighted to say it now though. I do think that TheoJed are probably not as far along as they would have hoped at the MLB level and that they can feel the fans getting antsy. I think if we looked back at the threads when Theo was first hired there was probably a decent amount of "suck the first year, 75-80 wins in 2013, 80-85 wins in 2014, legit division contenders and possibly NLCS/WS conteders in 2015." I think they are behind that pace at this point. I also think Hank Scorpio is probably where a lot of Cubs fans are right now, really wanting to see some solid results and return on the investments in the young guys next year.

I would think that if the Cubs cannot be a viable contender for at least the play in WC next season (which is only about 85 wins) there would need to be some serious discussions about where the organeyezation is headed, which may need to include heads (other than the manager) starting to roll.

_________________

It's been two years.

I fully expect if/when the Sox blow next year you are leading the charge for against Rick Hahn and whatever form of plan he's using.

The amount of Sox fans who are taking a lot of the media's praise of Jed/Theo and applying it to all Cubs fans is dumbfounding.

I obviously don't like watching the Cubs lose. I'm likely exacerbating the problem since I attended two games this year when normally i'm in the 10-20 range.

I get the plan, I like it. It sounds an awful lot like what St. Louis has been doing to make them the best franchise in baseball for the past decade. Sure it might fail. A lot of GM's with a very similar plan have before and will continue to fail. Nature of the beast/prospects.




Time. But if anyone has a problem with a team trying to establish a very strong farm system, we are so far away on how we think a team should be run it's not even worth discussing.

_________________
Team Cutler.