Good point. I agree.

_________________
“How do you get to be president and you’re stupid?” Donald J Trump - 4/10/25
When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus. - Turkish Proverb

For the record I really won’t argue against Brady because there’s really no historical basis for it but my personal GOAT based on the QBs I’ve seen in my lifetime was Montana.

_________________
“How do you get to be president and you’re stupid?” Donald J Trump - 4/10/25
When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus. - Turkish Proverb

brees was part of an offensive system that was designed around him, that's why he had such huge numbers. plus the saints pretty much had to have him put up points whereas brady had typically pretty good to great defenses. still, if you need a TD brady would surely be able to manufacture a drive to get one.

brady is the greatest because he's 44 years old and competing at a high level. steve deberg, doug flutie, vinnie...these guys at 40+ were barely riding benches.

I know he had a great D last year but he basically vaulted them into contention by his mere presence. They were talented but floundering before he arrived and then all of a sudden they're contenders. I haven't been a proponent of Brady as GOAT because of many reasons mentioned here, plus the scandals which no one seems to talk about, but last year kind of made Brady critics think twice.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

ok I will retract my Dwade and MJ comparison.

How about Kobe and MJ then.

Again, 2 great players, but in no way is Brees on Bradys level.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Brady is MJ either way. To me he reached the MJ/Gretzky level where I just am confused when anyone doesn’t acknowledge they are the clear cut obvious GOAT of their sport

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Kobe/MJ is a better comparison but again.. I used almost every major statistical metric to compare Brady and Brees.. and Brees either pulls even with him or flat out eclipses him. So I think we need to establish just how far off Brady Vs Brees is here when you say 'Brees is not on Brady's level' because simply playing the position season after season, game after game, Brees statistically is very close to Toms level.

I do want to take another moment to point out that I'm not arguing that Brees is better or greater than Tom. My position at this point is that its much closer than you and FF are making it out to be. And if you remove the team accomplishment element (such as rings), its a more eye opening an interesting debate.







Accomplishment and reputation wise I don't disagree with this.. but dominating their game wise I'm not sure I can agree as much. During almost all of MJ's career he was the best basketball player every time he stepped on the court, same goes for Wayne in his sport. Not the same with Brady, there have been quite a few years during Brady's career where Brady wasn't the best QB per season.

To put what I'm saying into perspective: Brady has only been a 1st team All Pro 3 times in his entire career. So essentially, according to league coaches and his peers, he was viewed as the best QB in the league 3 times. And you and I know you could have handed MJ the league MVP award nearly every year of his Bulls career and it would have been deserved. Thats the difference.

_________________
If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

I think Brady has passed Jordan. Someone JORR's age or older could reasonably argue that other players were better than Jordan, and this 25 and younger crowd has some tools to argue LeBron is better. By pretty much every measurement, Brady sits at the top of the mountain in the NFL. He's a sports god now.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Youre overcommitting. But I like the effort.

_________________
If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

The Patriots and Belichick have a worse draft track record than the Bears over the past decade or so. That's on offense and defense. Brees' numbers came from playing in a quarterback friendly system, with a team that drafted well and a great offensive mind as a head coach.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

yeah I agree, it is confusing. It seems really clear cut to me.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Theres no argument that Lebron is better that passes any type of critical thinking test

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No way in hell has Brady passed Jordan. When Michael Jordan was in his prime he was not only the best basketball player on earth but he was regarded as the greatest sportsman on earth. The only time Brady was ever in the conversation as best sportsman was probably 2007. Also, Brady does not have the total impact on a football game that Jordan had on a basketball game. Jordan dominated on offense on defense to a degree that perhaps no one ever has, Brady through no fault of his own cannot do that. Football is a very specialized sport, there are football players who are perhaps as great, or greater at their position than Brady at QB. Jerry rice is arguably a better wide receiver than Brady is a quarterback. The same thing could be said for Jim Brown, Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor.

I personally agree, but you have millions of "young people" and a few of Jordan's contemporaries who've jumped on that train.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

The NBA markets its superstars better than any sport. Jordan's popularity doesn't trump what Brady has done on the field. By statistics, rings and longevity, Brady is superior to Jordan. It really isn't even close.

Please don't include cocaine and steroid players in conversations about sports gods.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Jordan's dominance trumps Brady's accomplishments, period. I don't care how well marketed he was, he played basketball at a higher level than Brady ever played football. The first six seasons Brady was a starting quarterback he was not a dominant player statistically at all. Meanwhile Jordan entered the NBA as a dominant player and he was the most dominant player in basketball still when he was 35 years old. Also, to infer that Taylor, white or Brown were "steroid players" is ridiculous, there's no evidence of that at all. Taylor did use cocaine but that is not even worth mentioning.

Jordan never lost a championship.

Tom Brady has nearly played in more Super Bowls than seasons Jordan played in the NBA. At 39 Jordan needed a rocking chair and showed that he couldn't win without Scottie or Phil. At 45 Tom Brady is still winning Super Bowls and playing as a top 5 quarterback. Things that have literally never been done before in a violent sport. Jordan never did anything like that.

Cocaine numbs the pain and alters your brain. It definitely helps in sport like football.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Brady could say the same if his defense didn't wet the bed in the closing seconds 3 times against bum quarterbacks. It would have been 4, but Pete Carroll is an idiot.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Jordan played two seasons at a still very high level in his late 30's, early 40's in a sport that is even more reliant on athleticism, to say he needed a rocking chair is ridiculous. Brady stands in a clean pocket and throws a football, he never jumps and he barely ever runs. When Jordan was playing on the Wizards his teams were trash, perhaps some of that was his fault as team president, but the point remains. Brady has played on some absolutely loaded teams as an old player, his Bucs teams are clearly loaded offensively and as a quarterback he has zero influence on the defense. He is playing on much more talented teams than those two Wizards teams and even though he is the QB, he has far fewer responsibilities than the best player on an NBA team. Also, the current NFL has made a litany of rule changes that make it far easier for quarterback to dominate and to dominate later in his career. Brady is not the only QB dominating late in his career, although he's perhaps the most notable example. Aaron Rodgers is arguably the best player in football and he's about to turn 38, Drew Brees put up a 74% completion percentage as a 40 year old. For years when Jordan was in his prime there was absolutely no debate who the best player in basketball was, it was him. When Brady was in his prime there was always plenty of debate, whether it be Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, etc. The only year there was little to no debate was 2007.

It's about the entirety of your career, not based on peaks. Solely based on numbers, LeBron has an argument against Jordan and Wilt was the most dominant player ever. Bill Russell has more rings. Even Robert Horry has more rings. That leaves Jordan's brand as his biggest impact.

Despite the restrictions put on Brady with the Patriots, he's broken nearly every major quarterback record. Some will never be broken. He's also won more Super Bowls than any player in the history of the NFL. He did it during the free agency era too. That gives him statistics, longevity, rings and success without an all time great coach.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

It’s weird but not shocking to see someone argue with themselves on 2 separate accounts.

_________________
If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

Maybe Mahomes should take a page from Rodgers playbook and tell his family to sit down and stfu

It's that thinking that makes someone believe Brees is nearly as good as Tom Brady.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

For a decade MJ was the best scorer and arguably best defender in the NBA. Nobody in history can come close to claiming that. Thats his impact.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

This was an interesting read. Stop blitzing Mahomes.

https://sports.yahoo.com/whats-wrong-wi ... 43299.html

_________________

I think Wilt would like a word. Wilt did it in a far more physical and talented league, while playing the entire game and grabbing 25+ rebounds. Jordan's biggest impact is his global brand. It'll forever be unmatched by anyone and it has crossover appeal to every sport. The only person who came close was a mute Ali.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Wilt can want a word all he wants but read what I wrote, Wilt doesn’t come close to that discussion

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

LeBron ?

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Nope. Lebron was a very good defender for 4-5 years. Never the best in the league and him being a top defender was half a decade at best, nowhere near a full one. He was also never the best scorer in the league that i recall

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul